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Post by CardsFanQC on Apr 6, 2024 5:31:39 GMT -7
(Devongent - can you check the grapevine to see if indeed Harbaugh would take #11 & #23 for #5 ) Message has come through..... One hundred percent they will Trade Down from #5 to #11 and #23, and in fact it is said (by an un-named inner-circle source) that their FO have taken to praying daily at their campus, as means of influencing the Arizona Cardinals to draft Marvin Harrison Jr #4 (and thus making the #5 spot attractive for suitors). It is understood that the Charges preferred target #11 would be JC Latham, but should he already be off the board, then they "feel comfortable" with taking Fuaga instead. Around parts of Southern California there is a rumor going around that the Charges FO have set out to 'Hype Harrison' in the hope that it will trigger some team to take him in the top four picks. However, such has not be substantiated in any way, and this sophisticated slogan could actually have been composed by a disgruntled fan sat in a bar in down town San Diego after having had one too many tequila's. Thanks for the grapevine rumors -- I believe the Chargers like Nabers more than MHJ (Herbert tall QB doesn't have the prerequisite of the Cardinals that demand the Cards choose either MHJ/Odunze/Thomas at 6'4") and Harbaugh definitely would draft a tackle at #11 - Latham/Fuaga/Fashanu and be very happy. So -- Former Vikes GM Rick Spielman put Vikings fans on notice that their team will need to "overpay for JJ McCarthy." In fact Spielman says it will take #11 - #23 - 2025 1st rounder AND another pick in 2025. Combining this possibility to the "grapevine" that Harbaugh/Chargers would be content for #11 and #23 in exchange for #5, below is Benjamin Albright's (who has nailed previous top of the draft picks as he is "tight" with quite a few NFL GM/Front office personnel) mock draft where the above almost simultaneous trades are made by Monti: - Bears - Caleb Williams
- Commanders - Jaydon Daniels
- Patriots - Drake Maye
- Vikings - JJ McCarthy
- Cardinals - MHJ
- Giants - M. Nabers
- Titans - Joe Alt
- Falcons - D. Turner
- Bears - Rome Odunze
- Jets - Brock Bowers
- Chargers - Fashanu OT
- Rams - Jared Verse
Result: Cardinals get a 2025 1st rounder and a mid 2025 pick "FREE" after the simultaneous trade AND still have MHJ on the roster. Chargers have deep needs at CB, OT and Edge (With Khalil Mack‘s contract nearing its end and Joey Bosa‘s injury concerns) so IMO Harbaugh's idea is to get at #11 (one of the 3 tackles listed above) and #23 (Choose between Edge and local product Latu or CB (Wiggins - Kool Aid) and then with their high 2nd rounder get a WR like Legette/Mitchell/Worthy/Coleman)
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Post by devongent on Apr 6, 2024 6:28:05 GMT -7
so IMO Harbaugh's idea is to get at #11 (one of the 3 tackles listed above) and #23 (Choose between Edge and local product Latu or CB (Wiggins - Kool Aid) and then with their high 2nd rounder get a WR like Legette/Mitchell/Worthy/Coleman) And a very sensible strategy that would be too QC. - Perhaps you should put yourself forward as the Charges GM in our Annual Mock Draft 2024 Edition...
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Post by devongent on Apr 6, 2024 6:50:05 GMT -7
So -- Former Vikes GM Rick Spielman put Vikings fans on notice that their team will need to "overpay for JJ McCarthy." In fact Spielman says it will take #11 - #23 - 2025 1st rounder AND another pick in 2025. Combining this possibility to the "grapevine" that Harbaugh/Chargers would be content for #11 and #23 in exchange for #5, below is Benjamin Albright's (who has nailed previous top of the draft picks as he is "tight" with quite a few NFL GM/Front office personnel) mock draft where the above almost simultaneous trades are made by Monti: - Bears - Caleb Williams
- Commanders - Jaydon Daniels
- Patriots - Drake Maye
- Vikings - JJ McCarthy
- Cardinals - MHJ
- Giants - M. Nabers
- Titans - Joe Alt
- Falcons - D. Turner
- Bears - Rome Odunze
- Jets - Brock Bowers
- Chargers - Fashanu OT
- Rams - Jared Verse
Result: Cardinals get a 2025 1st rounder and a mid 2025 pick "FREE" after the simultaneous trade AND still have MHJ on the roster.
Could be QC, but I just don't see Minnesota giving up so much. Every team has their limit and three first-rounders + another one feels (to me) beyond what they would accept. - Also, if the Charges are to join in and help 'oil the wheels' of this transaction, then I suspect they would insist on a little extra slice of the pie. - Should each team be cooperative and not overly-greedy then there is a kernel of an idea here. At the end of the day the Vikings might sit on their hands #4 hoping the Cardinals take a WR, and not be tempted into a trade with the Giants, Broncos, Raiders etc. - This strategy could work well for them, as it is clear they would be more than willing to trade for a Quarterback in exchange for #11 and #23. Whether they do such #4 or #5 is immaterial as long as the end result is the same (they get their QB target man). - Were their GM to be a top poker player, then this might appear the correct path to follow.
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Post by CardsFanQC on Apr 6, 2024 7:42:21 GMT -7
So -- Former Vikes GM Rick Spielman put Vikings fans on notice that their team will need to "overpay for JJ McCarthy." In fact Spielman says it will take #11 - #23 - 2025 1st rounder AND another pick in 2025. Combining this possibility to the "grapevine" that Harbaugh/Chargers would be content for #11 and #23 in exchange for #5, below is Benjamin Albright's (who has nailed previous top of the draft picks as he is "tight" with quite a few NFL GM/Front office personnel) mock draft where the above almost simultaneous trades are made by Monti: - Bears - Caleb Williams
- Commanders - Jaydon Daniels
- Patriots - Drake Maye
- Vikings - JJ McCarthy
- Cardinals - MHJ
- Giants - M. Nabers
- Titans - Joe Alt
- Falcons - D. Turner
- Bears - Rome Odunze
- Jets - Brock Bowers
- Chargers - Fashanu OT
- Rams - Jared Verse
Result: Cardinals get a 2025 1st rounder and a mid 2025 pick "FREE" after the simultaneous trade AND still have MHJ on the roster.
Could be QC, but I just don't see Minnesota giving up so much. Every team has their limit and three first-rounders + another one feels (to me) beyond what they would accept. - Also, if the Charges are to join in and help 'oil the wheels' of this transaction, then I suspect they would insist on a little extra slice of the pie. - Should each team be cooperative and not overly-greedy then there is a kernel of an idea here. At the end of the day the Vikings might sit on their hands #4 hoping the Cardinals take a WR, and not be tempted into a trade with the Giants, Broncos, Raiders etc. - This strategy could work well for them, as it is clear they would be more than willing to trade for a Quarterback in exchange for #11 and #23. Whether they do such #4 or #5 is immaterial as long as the end result is the same (they get their QB target man). - Were their GM to be a top poker player, then this might appear the correct path to follow. If I am Monti I am totally comfortable with just taking MHJ over #11 and #23 which is NOT enough to pass on a generational talent like MHJ. In this draft, beyond the QB's there are about 4-5 ELITE football players so at #11 the Vikings would be given up a 2nd tier level player and at #23, players to be selected from around #18 - #34 are all about the same talent level to me. BTW -- Benjamin Albright says a couple of other things: 1) Nix/Penix will go toward back of Rd #1 or near top of #2 and 2) Giants ARE interested in McCarthy for their future QB. So - Giants go up 2 spots and grab McCarthy while the Cards add pick #47 and maybe a 2025 3rd or 4th rounder. Vikings withdraw their #11 - #23 to Chargers (because no worthwhile QB is available at #5). My belief is then Chargers either while on the clock try to find another trade down partner or just stick and pick for Nabers/Alt/MHJ .. in this order of preference. In this scenario I believe there is a 70% chance the Cards still get MHJ at #6. This nightmare scenario for the Vikings then alienates their most value asset = Justin Jefferson who must waste at LEAST one season of his career catching passes from Sam Darnold. Monti should buy a billboard ad across from the Vikings HQ with the following reminder as a cost for a top tier QB, 49ers gave up 3 first rounders AND a 3rd rounder for the ability to draft Trey Lance.
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Post by devongent on Apr 6, 2024 9:24:24 GMT -7
If I am Monti I am totally comfortable with just taking MHJ over #11 and #23 which is NOT enough to pass on a generational talent like MHJ. I am not recommending that the Cards trade with Minnesota just for the #11 and #23 picks. However, there is plenty of middle ground between that and the alternative you suggest (three first-rounders and another pick). Indeed, SF gave up a lot to move up for Trey Lance and that didn't work out too well, which might be in the minds of the Vikings when they are working through the different possible scenario's. So - Giants go up 2 spots and grab McCarthy while the Cards add pick #47 and maybe a 2025 3rd or 4th rounder. I am not averse to a Trade Down with the Giants, but I am thinking whether this likely to be an attractive proposition for Monti and his team? - Should their evaluation be that Harrison, Nabers and Odunze are of roughly equal talent stature and suitability for the Cardinals, then a swap around with NY makes perfect sense. The extra second-rounder #47 would be very useful and welcomed thank you very much. However, if Ossenfort is viewing Harrison as 'a cut above the rest', then the 'risk to reward' balance would make it non-sensible to risk capturing him by such a trade. Even at a 70% probability ratio that it would work, I cannot imagine they would roll the dice and chance it for the sake of an additional middle second-rounder. In this draft, beyond the QB's there are about 4-5 ELITE football players so at #11 the Vikings would be given up a 2nd tier level player and at #23, players to be selected from around #18 - #34 are all about the same talent level to me. I'm a bit more positive on the 'level of quality' that will be available #11 and #23 and, consequently, I consider that excellent players can be brought in at these spots. My own trade recommendation with Minnesota would also secure us another first-rounder in 2025 (at the expense of our second-rounder), and in my opinion that gap in talent (for example, a player available #16 v one #48) is very significant and very worthwhile. Imagine if the Vikings had a horrible season in 2024 then we could be looking at an additional top-ten pick in the 2025 draft. So, I'll stick with my recommended trade with the Vikings and it's then down to the other forum members to consider the various options and decide what to do in our Mock Draft 2024. - Assuming we did obtain the #11 and #23 picks, then we could add some worthwhile 'sweetener' and indeed Trade up #5 and (forum rejoice) draft Marvin Harrison Jr there. - Perhaps even a swap around of this year's second round picks might be enough to get a deal with the Charges across the line, hence - Cardinals give up #11, #23 and #35 for #5 and #37. What's your thoughts on that...?
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Post by CardsFanQC on Apr 6, 2024 9:35:47 GMT -7
If I am Monti I am totally comfortable with just taking MHJ over #11 and #23 which is NOT enough to pass on a generational talent like MHJ. I am not recommending that the Cards trade with Minnesota just for the #11 and #23 picks. However, there is plenty of middle ground between that and the alternative you suggest (three first-rounders and another pick). Indeed, SF gave up a lot to move up for Trey Lance and that didn't work out too well, which might be in the minds of the Vikings when they are working through the different possible scenario's. So - Giants go up 2 spots and grab McCarthy while the Cards add pick #47 and maybe a 2025 3rd or 4th rounder. I am not averse to a Trade Down with the Giants, but I am thinking whether this likely to be an attractive proposition for Monti and his team? - Should their evaluation be that Harrison, Nabers and Odunze are of roughly equal talent stature and suitability for the Cardinals, then a swap around with NY makes perfect sense. The extra second-rounder #47 would be very useful and welcomed thank you very much. However, if Ossenfort is viewing Harrison as 'a cut above the rest', then the 'risk to reward' balance would make it non-sensible to risk capturing him by such a trade. Even at a 70% probability ratio that it would work, I cannot imagine they would roll the dice and chance it for the sake of an additional middle second-rounder. In this draft, beyond the QB's there are about 4-5 ELITE football players so at #11 the Vikings would be given up a 2nd tier level player and at #23, players to be selected from around #18 - #34 are all about the same talent level to me. I'm a bit more positive on the 'level of quality' that will be available #11 and #23 and, consequently, I consider that excellent players can be brought in at these spots. My own trade recommendation with Minnesota would also secure us another first-rounder in 2025 (at the expense of our second-rounder), and in my opinion that gap in talent (for example, a player available #16 v one #48) is very significant and very worthwhile. Imagine if the Vikings had a horrible season in 2024 then we could be looking at an additional top-ten pick in the 2025 draft. So, I'll stick with my recommended trade with the Vikings and it's then down to the other forum members to consider the various options and decide what to do in our Mock Draft 2024. - Assuming we did obtain the #11 and #23 picks, then we could add some worthwhile 'sweetener' and indeed Trade up #5 and (forum rejoice) draft Marvin Harrison Jr there. - Perhaps even a swap around of this year's second round picks might be enough to get a deal with the Charges across the line, hence - Cardinals give up #11, #23 and #35 for #5 and #37. What's your thoughts on that...? I thought you might want a "sweetener" for Harbaugh to save face to Charger fans while Monti keeps the "free" 2025 1st rounder and 2025 4th rounder from the Vikings. I am probably willing to do your suggestion and giving you 2 draft positions in Rd. #2 and I still get MHJ (again I get MHJ and can pay him less for being selected #5 rather than #4). The only thing is can I make it part of the trade with Chargers that at #35 you cannot pick either Darius Robinson, Latu or Chop Robinson -- not sure what conditions can be made on trade. You ready to call Goodell's office and "lock in" these 2 simultaneous trades ? When we call Goodell, I'll be drinking some Jameson on the rocks in celebration !!! I might also call the Vikings to thank them but remind them the Cards didn't like the fact the Vikes purposely started Dobbs one less game to cost me a conditional 6th rounder so they owed me anyway !!!! BTW - this is a brand new video from the 33rdteam where former GM Spielman and Charles Davis play GM for the Pats, Cards, Vikings and Broncos and go back & forth with trade offers for draft picks. I think forum readers will get a kick out of this 7 minutes of fun - Spielman & Charles Davis play GM with back and forth Trade Offers
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Post by Dry Heat on Apr 6, 2024 11:17:06 GMT -7
If I am Monti I am totally comfortable with just taking MHJ over #11 and #23 which is NOT enough to pass on a generational talent like MHJ. I am not recommending that the Cards trade with Minnesota just for the #11 and #23 picks. However, there is plenty of middle ground between that and the alternative you suggest (three first-rounders and another pick). Indeed, SF gave up a lot to move up for Trey Lance and that didn't work out too well, which might be in the minds of the Vikings when they are working through the different possible scenario's. So - Giants go up 2 spots and grab McCarthy while the Cards add pick #47 and maybe a 2025 3rd or 4th rounder. I am not averse to a Trade Down with the Giants, but I am thinking whether this likely to be an attractive proposition for Monti and his team? - Should their evaluation be that Harrison, Nabers and Odunze are of roughly equal talent stature and suitability for the Cardinals, then a swap around with NY makes perfect sense. The extra second-rounder #47 would be very useful and welcomed thank you very much. However, if Ossenfort is viewing Harrison as 'a cut above the rest', then the 'risk to reward' balance would make it non-sensible to risk capturing him by such a trade. Even at a 70% probability ratio that it would work, I cannot imagine they would roll the dice and chance it for the sake of an additional middle second-rounder. In this draft, beyond the QB's there are about 4-5 ELITE football players so at #11 the Vikings would be given up a 2nd tier level player and at #23, players to be selected from around #18 - #34 are all about the same talent level to me. I'm a bit more positive on the 'level of quality' that will be available #11 and #23 and, consequently, I consider that excellent players can be brought in at these spots. My own trade recommendation with Minnesota would also secure us another first-rounder in 2025 (at the expense of our second-rounder), and in my opinion that gap in talent (for example, a player available #16 v one #48) is very significant and very worthwhile. Imagine if the Vikings had a horrible season in 2024 then we could be looking at an additional top-ten pick in the 2025 draft. So, I'll stick with my recommended trade with the Vikings and it's then down to the other forum members to consider the various options and decide what to do in our Mock Draft 2024. - Assuming we did obtain the #11 and #23 picks, then we could add some worthwhile 'sweetener' and indeed Trade up #5 and (forum rejoice) draft Marvin Harrison Jr there. - Perhaps even a swap around of this year's second round picks might be enough to get a deal with the Charges across the line, hence - Cardinals give up #11, #23 and #35 for #5 and #37. What's your thoughts on that...? If the net benefit of #11, #23 and whatever extra would be given is equal to or better than one Marvin Harrison, you make the trade. Remember, it’s not just the performance on the field in the “net” to the team of these three rookie players. It’s 14 years of cheap rookie contracts compared to 5. It’s the lower risk of an injury destroying value. For the Giants trade, would 5 cheap years of MHJ have more value than 9 cheap years of Nabers/Odunze and whomever we pick at #47.
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Post by devongent on Apr 6, 2024 11:23:26 GMT -7
The only thing is can I make it part of the trade with Chargers that at #35 you cannot pick either Darius Robinson, Latu or Chop Robinson -- not sure what conditions can be made on trade. I doubt it QC, that sounds unethical to me. However, don't worry about it, out of those three Chop Robinson is the one that would be of interest to me and should the Cardinal FO be really keen on him, then, likely as not, we will take him #27 (assuming we haven't drafted a Defensive player with our first pick). But, should we trade with Minnesota and hold the #23 pick, then............... (and we go around again in circles).
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Post by devongent on Apr 6, 2024 11:45:47 GMT -7
If the net benefit of #11, #23 and whatever extra would be given is equal to or better than one Marvin Harrison, you make the trade. Remember, it’s not just the performance on the field in the “net” to the team of these three rookie players. It’s 14 years of cheap rookie contracts compared to 5. It’s the lower risk of an injury destroying value. For the Giants trade, would 5 cheap years of MHJ have more value than 9 cheap years of Nabers/Odunze and whomever we pick at #47. I think that the three routes considered in this Mock Draft 2024 Edition process so far highlight the options very well - 1) Stick #4 and draft Marvin Harrison Jr. - This will be favored by all who want this player 'come what may'. 2) Trade Down with the Giants and draft (likely) another WR #6 - This will be favored by all who want a top receiver and prefer Nabers or Odunze (or at least believe one or other is equal to Harrison). 3) Trade Down with Minnesota and gain substantial compensation. This will be favored by those who hold a positive view about the level of talent that will be available #11 and #23. This option may also find favor with those optimistic enough to believe the Cardinals can trade back up and still draft Harrison, or one the other top WR's. 4) Trade Down to another team like the Broncos. Very similar to number 3, but the lack of additional first-rounder this year might be significant. Each to their own and I suspect you are in the option 2 box DH...!
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Post by Dry Heat on Apr 6, 2024 15:09:57 GMT -7
If the net benefit of #11, #23 and whatever extra would be given is equal to or better than one Marvin Harrison, you make the trade. Remember, it’s not just the performance on the field in the “net” to the team of these three rookie players. It’s 14 years of cheap rookie contracts compared to 5. It’s the lower risk of an injury destroying value. For the Giants trade, would 5 cheap years of MHJ have more value than 9 cheap years of Nabers/Odunze and whomever we pick at #47. I think that the three routes considered in this Mock Draft 2024 Edition process so far highlight the options very well - 1) Stick #4 and draft Marvin Harrison Jr. - This will be favored by all who want this player 'come what may'. 2) Trade Down with the Giants and draft (likely) another WR #6 - This will be favored by all who want a top receiver and prefer Nabers or Odunze (or at least believe one or other is equal to Harrison). 3) Trade Down with Minnesota and gain substantial compensation. This will be favored by those who hold a positive view about the level of talent that will be available #11 and #23. This option may also find favor with those optimistic enough to believe the Cardinals can trade back up and still draft Harrison, or one the other top WR's. 4) Trade Down to another team like the Broncos. Very similar to number 3, but the lack of additional first-rounder this year might be significant. Each to their own and I suspect you are in the option 2 box DH...! Pretty much! I will be happy with MHJ at #4. That said I think we are farrr more than any WR from competing at a playoff level, and see so much value into the 2nd and 3rd rounds of this particular draft. I can find happiness in any of the four options you’ve perfectly laid out. The favorite end result I’ve seen was a live draft done a few days ago in which the representative for the Cardinals was offered several trades while MHJ was available at #4. He took the often discussed #11, #23 and 2025 first from Minn. He then traded back up to #5 for #11 and #35 to the Chargers, and took MHJ. We ended up with MHJ anyway, for a bit less money in his rookie deal, we move up from #35 to #23, and we gain a 2025 1st. That’s a great day at the office for any GM! Im so ready for this draft. Most exciting I can think of including when we had the 1st pick used on Kyler for Cardinals fans. So much draft ammo and I think potential for a big leap these next two years. We still have $30 million in cap as well, 6th in the league, with no one important to sign or extend in house.
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Post by devongent on Apr 7, 2024 1:23:36 GMT -7
The favorite end result I’ve seen was a live draft done a few days ago in which the representative for the Cardinals was offered several trades while MHJ was available at #4. He took the often discussed #11, #23 and 2025 first from Minn. He then traded back up to #5 for #11 and #35 to the Chargers, and took MHJ. We ended up with MHJ anyway, for a bit less money in his rookie deal, we move up from #35 to #23, and we gain a 2025 1st. That’s a great day at the office for any GM! BINGO! Im so ready for this draft. Most exciting I can think of including when we had the 1st pick used on Kyler for Cardinals fans. So much draft ammo and I think potential for a big leap these next two years. We still have $30 million in cap as well, 6th in the league, with no one important to sign or extend in house. This year is the most exciting draft by far since I've been around. - The 'Kyler Year' was the least exciting, we had the number one pick and it was telegraphed in advance that we would be selecting him (with Kingsbury on board if I remember correctly). - Knowing an outcome doesn't give excitement, not knowing is when the fun starts!
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Post by cbltv on Apr 9, 2024 7:16:13 GMT -7
I seriously hope... the cards Do Not take MHJ @4. Gotta a bad gut feeling over taking him # 4 or just taking him period. I see Diva and not in any way a good thing.
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Post by Dry Heat on Apr 9, 2024 10:43:56 GMT -7
I seriously hope... the cards Do Not take MHJ @4. Gotta a bad gut feeling over taking him # 4 or just taking him period. I see Diva and not in any way a good thing. His personality is pretty quiet, professional and reserved in all interviews I’ve seen. I don’t see diva at all, yet I do wonder if he has internal drive beyond wanting to impress his father, and I hope he’s strong enough to emerge from his shadow not just as a player but as a man. This “we” stuff when MHJ and MHS speak raises a red flag for me. Just my opinion. I think he will be a great WR. My concern would be contractual stuff and him leaving after his rookie contract. That said, his dad did spend his whole career in Indy.
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Post by CardsFanQC on Apr 9, 2024 11:43:26 GMT -7
HMMM - I did a search of my posts before 2020 draft -
1) On Mar 2, 2020 at 9:35am - I stated SK's pick for #8 should be either Patrick Queen LB or Justin Jefferson WR, LSU ... I also liked Derrick Brown but he went #7. 2) Apr 20, 2020 at 6:55am - I stated "Another receiver climbing draft boards is Justin Jefferson -- I think he goes into the Top20."
My dream for 2024 would be MHJ at #5 (the Monti 2-step trade) and Pearsall at #66.
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Post by CardsFanQC on Apr 9, 2024 15:31:58 GMT -7
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