ricardo
Pro Bowler
Redbirds4Ever!
Posts: 1,455
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Post by ricardo on Apr 23, 2024 9:01:59 GMT -7
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Post by Chirpn’time on Apr 23, 2024 9:33:39 GMT -7
Many good points made. It is also hard to say players that were drafted to others teams were better for the Cards. Different coaching as well as surrounding roster can change a player’s actual performance.
At the end of the day it was a cleaning house and working with what was dumped on Monti in 2023.
Big improvement was actually getting many snaps played by rookies and Paris playing every snap. That equates to plate development and if people have a problem with building a young solid OT or OL they will also complain ayK1 getting knocked out with injuries.
There is a major shift in the Cards being a desirable place for FAs.
To bitch and second guess every move is a bit too much for me to take and be silent about.
If the major improvements in the team isn’t apparent… there are major blinders.
Cards have the best amount of draft capital in a great draft. The last 8 games with K1 Cards were #9 ranked offense and a poor roster beat play off caliber opponents in 2023.
The Cards are now making progression to knock off KC in a year or two and many are stuck in the SK funk years.
New GM and HC have the ship upright and not sinking….too early to question every move thus far. No car crash to run to for viewing at this point. IMHO
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Post by flash on Apr 23, 2024 16:35:57 GMT -7
People don't care about this enormous elephant in the room man they just think more picks = greater odds to get a better player We're a bottom 3 team in evaluating talent and fans want to trade down to move further away from blue chip prospects on a team that lacks talent to get like the 3rd/4th best players at a position. It's flat out comical Suffice to say You get it. Monti did not have a great draft last season like many think he didWill Anderson was there and not picked ( we were the worst pass rush team in the NFL last year Sam Laporta is possibly better than Trey McBride at Tight End and he was a rookie. I dont know why they didnt clean house in the scouting department All these scouts are Keim's guys. Hello FL...here are the stats on how each of our 2023 drafted players turned out this past season... __________________________________________________________________________________________
How do you think Monti's draft went last season? Here are the players we drafted and my opinion on how the pick turned out.
Paris Johnson: #6 PICK
This was a great pick though I would have rather had Will Anderson. And don't forget that we had to give up a pick to trade back up to get him. But I am okay with this pick last draft.
BJ Ojulari: #41 PICK
We did not see much from him as far as above average. It was not even close. He started zero games. Was drafted with our #41 pick. Shouldn't he have started at least one game? He was to be our pass rusher from the draft. He had 4 sacks in all of the games he played. For being our second pick in the draft, should that have been more in the 7 to 8 range? He had 40 combo and 23 solo tackles. He also had 6 QB hits...do you think he held up to where he was picked?
Garrett Williams:#72 PICK
He started 6 out of 9 games. Remember that he did not start playing until he was cleared from his injury to play. He did not get to play until week 7. He was also inactive for weeks 15 and 17. So, he missed playing in 8 games last season. He was our 3rd pick in the draft last draft. Do you think that maybe we should have drafted a player that would have been available for most of the season? Because of this, I do question Monti on this pick with our 3rd pick of the draft last season. In the 9 games that he played, he had one interception, 19 solo tackles, 23 combo tackles, zero QB hits, zero sacks and 2 passes defended. Do you think he has held up to where we drafted him?
Michael Wilson: #94 PICK
He started 12 of the 13 games he played. For the games he played, it seems he did good. Not elite but more like just average. He had 565 receiving yards, 3 TD's(only 3 TD's ub 12 starts is not really that good. However, his 14.9 yards per reception are good. He averaged 43.5 yards per game in the games he played. He did not have a single 100+ yard game. But then again, he was not our #1 WR. He was behind Hollywood and McBride. Had Hollywood been gone, would he have beat McBride as our #1 player in yards? I don't know. What I do know is that I think that Monti perhaps could have selected a player that would have played and started more games. We shall see if Michael will be able to play and start more games. Should we pass on Marvin and end up with Odunze, Malik or Brian Thomas, will he be second to either of those rookies? Will he do better than Dortch this coming season? If he does less than a Rookie WR or Dortch, that would mean he becomes the number #3 WR in the Corp.
John Gaines #122 PICK
I was not able to find any kind of stats on him for last season. Did he get injured early on? I thought I would have found some kind of stats on him being a 4th round pick. So, we still have to see if this pick was worth it...
Clayton Tune #139 PICK
Well, we know how that turned out....
Owen Pappoe #168 PICK
He started 1 game. Had 5 Solo Tackles, 11 Combo Tackles, 1 QB Hit and 1 Pass Defended. Zero interceptions. He was a 5th round pick. So, I am not sure if he should have done better. What is funny is that we just drafted two LB's in consecutive years in the first round...that did not pan out.
Kei'Trel Clark #180 PICK
He started 7 of 14 games. No Interceptions. 37 Solo Tackles, 43 Combo Tackles, QB Hits zero, Sacks zero and Passes Defended 4. Considering he was a 6th round pick, I actually thought he did a pretty good job when he played. Then the Coaches did not let him play as much...hmm...I couldn't figure that one out...
Dante Stills 3213 PICK
Started 8 of 15 games. 3.5 sacks(almost as many sacks as our 2nd pick in the draft...Solo Tackles 18, Combo Tackles 47, QB Hits 5. I actually thought he did a great job for being our last pick in the draft last year.
I definitely think that Paris, Clark and Stills played at the level expected in the round they were selected. I also think Paris played above expectations...
So tell me, do you still think that Monti and JG know how to draft players that play as expected where they are drafted?
I Don't think that...and that is what worries me about trading down again...
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Post by FLCardinalFan on Apr 23, 2024 18:33:34 GMT -7
Suffice to say You get it. Monti did not have a great draft last season like many think he didWill Anderson was there and not picked ( we were the worst pass rush team in the NFL last year Sam Laporta is possibly better than Trey McBride at Tight End and he was a rookie. I dont know why they didnt clean house in the scouting department All these scouts are Keim's guys. Outstanding research, Flash you should take a bow. You backed it up. At the top you may have noticed I said 8 rookies possibly 9 contributed in 2024. Jon Gaines coming back from injury is highly thought of by the team.
Hello FL...here are the stats on how each of our 2023 drafted players turned out this past season... __________________________________________________________________________________________
How do you think Monti's draft went last season? Here are the players we drafted and my opinion on how the pick turned out.
Paris Johnson: #6 PICK
This was a great pick though I would have rather had Will Anderson. And don't forget that we had to give up a pick to trade back up to get him. But I am okay with this pick last draft.
BJ Ojulari: #41 PICK
We did not see much from him as far as above average. It was not even close. He started zero games. Was drafted with our #41 pick. Shouldn't he have started at least one game? He was to be our pass rusher from the draft. He had 4 sacks in all of the games he played. For being our second pick in the draft, should that have been more in the 7 to 8 range? He had 40 combo and 23 solo tackles. He also had 6 QB hits...do you think he held up to where he was picked?
Garrett Williams:#72 PICK
He started 6 out of 9 games. Remember that he did not start playing until he was cleared from his injury to play. He did not get to play until week 7. He was also inactive for weeks 15 and 17. So, he missed playing in 8 games last season. He was our 3rd pick in the draft last draft. Do you think that maybe we should have drafted a player that would have been available for most of the season? Because of this, I do question Monti on this pick with our 3rd pick of the draft last season. In the 9 games that he played, he had one interception, 19 solo tackles, 23 combo tackles, zero QB hits, zero sacks and 2 passes defended. Do you think he has held up to where we drafted him?
Michael Wilson: #94 PICK
He started 12 of the 13 games he played. For the games he played, it seems he did good. Not elite but more like just average. He had 565 receiving yards, 3 TD's(only 3 TD's ub 12 starts is not really that good. However, his 14.9 yards per reception are good. He averaged 43.5 yards per game in the games he played. He did not have a single 100+ yard game. But then again, he was not our #1 WR. He was behind Hollywood and McBride. Had Hollywood been gone, would he have beat McBride as our #1 player in yards? I don't know. What I do know is that I think that Monti perhaps could have selected a player that would have played and started more games. We shall see if Michael will be able to play and start more games. Should we pass on Marvin and end up with Odunze, Malik or Brian Thomas, will he be second to either of those rookies? Will he do better than Dortch this coming season? If he does less than a Rookie WR or Dortch, that would mean he becomes the number #3 WR in the Corp.
John Gaines #122 PICK
I was not able to find any kind of stats on him for last season. Did he get injured early on? I thought I would have found some kind of stats on him being a 4th round pick. So, we still have to see if this pick was worth it...
Clayton Tune #139 PICK
Well, we know how that turned out....
Owen Pappoe #168 PICK
He started 1 game. Had 5 Solo Tackles, 11 Combo Tackles, 1 QB Hit and 1 Pass Defended. Zero interceptions. He was a 5th round pick. So, I am not sure if he should have done better. What is funny is that we just drafted two LB's in consecutive years in the first round...that did not pan out.
Kei'Trel Clark #180 PICK
He started 7 of 14 games. No Interceptions. 37 Solo Tackles, 43 Combo Tackles, QB Hits zero, Sacks zero and Passes Defended 4. Considering he was a 6th round pick, I actually thought he did a pretty good job when he played. Then the Coaches did not let him play as much...hmm...I couldn't figure that one out...
Dante Stills 3213 PICK
Started 8 of 15 games. 3.5 sacks(almost as many sacks as our 2nd pick in the draft...Solo Tackles 18, Combo Tackles 47, QB Hits 5. I actually thought he did a great job for being our last pick in the draft last year.
I definitely think that Paris, Clark and Stills played at the level expected in the round they were selected. I also think Paris played above expectations...
So tell me, do you still think that Monti and JG know how to draft players that play as expected where they are drafted?
I Don't think that...and that is what worries me about trading down again...
Outstanding research, Flash you should take a bow. You backed it up. At the top you may have noticed I said 8 rookies possibly 9 contributed in 2024. Jon Gaines coming back from injury is highly thought of by the team.
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Post by flash on Apr 23, 2024 18:41:09 GMT -7
Hello FL...here are the stats on how each of our 2023 drafted players turned out this past season... __________________________________________________________________________________________
How do you think Monti's draft went last season? Here are the players we drafted and my opinion on how the pick turned out.
Paris Johnson: #6 PICK
This was a great pick though I would have rather had Will Anderson. And don't forget that we had to give up a pick to trade back up to get him. But I am okay with this pick last draft.
BJ Ojulari: #41 PICK
We did not see much from him as far as above average. It was not even close. He started zero games. Was drafted with our #41 pick. Shouldn't he have started at least one game? He was to be our pass rusher from the draft. He had 4 sacks in all of the games he played. For being our second pick in the draft, should that have been more in the 7 to 8 range? He had 40 combo and 23 solo tackles. He also had 6 QB hits...do you think he held up to where he was picked?
Garrett Williams:#72 PICK
He started 6 out of 9 games. Remember that he did not start playing until he was cleared from his injury to play. He did not get to play until week 7. He was also inactive for weeks 15 and 17. So, he missed playing in 8 games last season. He was our 3rd pick in the draft last draft. Do you think that maybe we should have drafted a player that would have been available for most of the season? Because of this, I do question Monti on this pick with our 3rd pick of the draft last season. In the 9 games that he played, he had one interception, 19 solo tackles, 23 combo tackles, zero QB hits, zero sacks and 2 passes defended. Do you think he has held up to where we drafted him?
Michael Wilson: #94 PICK
He started 12 of the 13 games he played. For the games he played, it seems he did good. Not elite but more like just average. He had 565 receiving yards, 3 TD's(only 3 TD's ub 12 starts is not really that good. However, his 14.9 yards per reception are good. He averaged 43.5 yards per game in the games he played. He did not have a single 100+ yard game. But then again, he was not our #1 WR. He was behind Hollywood and McBride. Had Hollywood been gone, would he have beat McBride as our #1 player in yards? I don't know. What I do know is that I think that Monti perhaps could have selected a player that would have played and started more games. We shall see if Michael will be able to play and start more games. Should we pass on Marvin and end up with Odunze, Malik or Brian Thomas, will he be second to either of those rookies? Will he do better than Dortch this coming season? If he does less than a Rookie WR or Dortch, that would mean he becomes the number #3 WR in the Corp.
John Gaines #122 PICK
I was not able to find any kind of stats on him for last season. Did he get injured early on? I thought I would have found some kind of stats on him being a 4th round pick. So, we still have to see if this pick was worth it...
Clayton Tune #139 PICK
Well, we know how that turned out....
Owen Pappoe #168 PICK
He started 1 game. Had 5 Solo Tackles, 11 Combo Tackles, 1 QB Hit and 1 Pass Defended. Zero interceptions. He was a 5th round pick. So, I am not sure if he should have done better. What is funny is that we just drafted two LB's in consecutive years in the first round...that did not pan out.
Kei'Trel Clark #180 PICK
He started 7 of 14 games. No Interceptions. 37 Solo Tackles, 43 Combo Tackles, QB Hits zero, Sacks zero and Passes Defended 4. Considering he was a 6th round pick, I actually thought he did a pretty good job when he played. Then the Coaches did not let him play as much...hmm...I couldn't figure that one out...
Dante Stills 3213 PICK
Started 8 of 15 games. 3.5 sacks(almost as many sacks as our 2nd pick in the draft...Solo Tackles 18, Combo Tackles 47, QB Hits 5. I actually thought he did a great job for being our last pick in the draft last year.
I definitely think that Paris, Clark and Stills played at the level expected in the round they were selected. I also think Paris played above expectations...
So tell me, do you still think that Monti and JG know how to draft players that play as expected where they are drafted?
I Don't think that...and that is what worries me about trading down again...
Outstanding research, Flash you should take a bow. You backed it up. At the top you may have noticed I said 8 rookies possibly 9 contributed in 2024. Jon Gaines coming back from injury is highly thought of by the team. Fl...that is why I said about Gaines that we still have to see how he pans out...
You have no idea how nervous about this draft I am...I really want Marvin...but if that does not happen, I am keeping my fingers crossed that Monti and J.G. truly know what they are doing....
We shall see how it all turns out...I can't wait till Thursday...it has been stressful waiting for Thursday...
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Post by thomas cat on Apr 23, 2024 18:50:21 GMT -7
Suffice to say You get it. Monti did not have a great draft last season like many think he didWill Anderson was there and not picked ( we were the worst pass rush team in the NFL last year Sam Laporta is possibly better than Trey McBride at Tight End and he was a rookie. I dont know why they didnt clean house in the scouting department All these scouts are Keim's guys. Hello FL...here are the stats on how each of our 2023 drafted players turned out this past season... __________________________________________________________________________________________
How do you think Monti's draft went last season? Here are the players we drafted and my opinion on how the pick turned out.
Paris Johnson: #6 PICK
This was a great pick though I would have rather had Will Anderson. And don't forget that we had to give up a pick to trade back up to get him. But I am okay with this pick last draft.
BJ Ojulari: #41 PICK
We did not see much from him as far as above average. It was not even close. He started zero games. Was drafted with our #41 pick. Shouldn't he have started at least one game? He was to be our pass rusher from the draft. He had 4 sacks in all of the games he played. For being our second pick in the draft, should that have been more in the 7 to 8 range? He had 40 combo and 23 solo tackles. He also had 6 QB hits...do you think he held up to where he was picked?
Garrett Williams:#72 PICK
He started 6 out of 9 games. Remember that he did not start playing until he was cleared from his injury to play. He did not get to play until week 7. He was also inactive for weeks 15 and 17. So, he missed playing in 8 games last season. He was our 3rd pick in the draft last draft. Do you think that maybe we should have drafted a player that would have been available for most of the season? Because of this, I do question Monti on this pick with our 3rd pick of the draft last season. In the 9 games that he played, he had one interception, 19 solo tackles, 23 combo tackles, zero QB hits, zero sacks and 2 passes defended. Do you think he has held up to where we drafted him?
Michael Wilson: #94 PICK
He started 12 of the 13 games he played. For the games he played, it seems he did good. Not elite but more like just average. He had 565 receiving yards, 3 TD's(only 3 TD's ub 12 starts is not really that good. However, his 14.9 yards per reception are good. He averaged 43.5 yards per game in the games he played. He did not have a single 100+ yard game. But then again, he was not our #1 WR. He was behind Hollywood and McBride. Had Hollywood been gone, would he have beat McBride as our #1 player in yards? I don't know. What I do know is that I think that Monti perhaps could have selected a player that would have played and started more games. We shall see if Michael will be able to play and start more games. Should we pass on Marvin and end up with Odunze, Malik or Brian Thomas, will he be second to either of those rookies? Will he do better than Dortch this coming season? If he does less than a Rookie WR or Dortch, that would mean he becomes the number #3 WR in the Corp.
John Gaines #122 PICK
I was not able to find any kind of stats on him for last season. Did he get injured early on? I thought I would have found some kind of stats on him being a 4th round pick. So, we still have to see if this pick was worth it...
Clayton Tune #139 PICK
Well, we know how that turned out....
Owen Pappoe #168 PICK
He started 1 game. Had 5 Solo Tackles, 11 Combo Tackles, 1 QB Hit and 1 Pass Defended. Zero interceptions. He was a 5th round pick. So, I am not sure if he should have done better. What is funny is that we just drafted two LB's in consecutive years in the first round...that did not pan out.
Kei'Trel Clark #180 PICK
He started 7 of 14 games. No Interceptions. 37 Solo Tackles, 43 Combo Tackles, QB Hits zero, Sacks zero and Passes Defended 4. Considering he was a 6th round pick, I actually thought he did a pretty good job when he played. Then the Coaches did not let him play as much...hmm...I couldn't figure that one out...
Dante Stills 3213 PICK
Started 8 of 15 games. 3.5 sacks(almost as many sacks as our 2nd pick in the draft...Solo Tackles 18, Combo Tackles 47, QB Hits 5. I actually thought he did a great job for being our last pick in the draft last year.
I definitely think that Paris, Clark and Stills played at the level expected in the round they were selected. I also think Paris played above expectations...
So tell me, do you still think that Monti and JG know how to draft players that play as expected where they are drafted?
I Don't think that...and that is what worries me about trading down again...
While I think what you said about each player is fair....facts are facts. However, there may be a different way at looking at these facts. Sure no one really shined, but rookies often have slow starts. While there are always exceptions, most don't start to shine until year 2 or even three. It's too soon to give them a true evaluation. The fact that they are all still on the team ( at least I think they are ) says something. But my main point is this. We had a complete coaching change. New coaching regimes takes time to fully develop. Then we had more rookies playing than pretty much any other team. Other than rookies, we had a bunch of very mediocre vets and only a small handful of proven vets. Taking in these considerations, it hard for a rookie to shine. Put a rookie on a team that's well stocked along with a well-oiled coaching staff that has had time to congeal...well it's much easier. Reading what you posted, I see a glass half full....not half empty. Still, it was a well-researched post and I thank you for that, I just came to a different conclusion....
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Post by CardCore on Apr 23, 2024 18:53:54 GMT -7
As far back as before this site was BORN I posted a thread at the Cards website pointing to the fact that owners of teams need not be associated with the draft in order to avoid conflict of interest. Yeah, I get it. He owns the team and it's his business so he should and can do whatever he wants. The fact is he sticks his face into the middle of too much football business that he needs desperately to stay clear away from.
Michael Bidwill is the problem.
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Post by flash on Apr 23, 2024 19:27:57 GMT -7
Hello FL...here are the stats on how each of our 2023 drafted players turned out this past season... __________________________________________________________________________________________
How do you think Monti's draft went last season? Here are the players we drafted and my opinion on how the pick turned out.
Paris Johnson: #6 PICK
This was a great pick though I would have rather had Will Anderson. And don't forget that we had to give up a pick to trade back up to get him. But I am okay with this pick last draft.
BJ Ojulari: #41 PICK
We did not see much from him as far as above average. It was not even close. He started zero games. Was drafted with our #41 pick. Shouldn't he have started at least one game? He was to be our pass rusher from the draft. He had 4 sacks in all of the games he played. For being our second pick in the draft, should that have been more in the 7 to 8 range? He had 40 combo and 23 solo tackles. He also had 6 QB hits...do you think he held up to where he was picked?
Garrett Williams:#72 PICK
He started 6 out of 9 games. Remember that he did not start playing until he was cleared from his injury to play. He did not get to play until week 7. He was also inactive for weeks 15 and 17. So, he missed playing in 8 games last season. He was our 3rd pick in the draft last draft. Do you think that maybe we should have drafted a player that would have been available for most of the season? Because of this, I do question Monti on this pick with our 3rd pick of the draft last season. In the 9 games that he played, he had one interception, 19 solo tackles, 23 combo tackles, zero QB hits, zero sacks and 2 passes defended. Do you think he has held up to where we drafted him?
Michael Wilson: #94 PICK
He started 12 of the 13 games he played. For the games he played, it seems he did good. Not elite but more like just average. He had 565 receiving yards, 3 TD's(only 3 TD's ub 12 starts is not really that good. However, his 14.9 yards per reception are good. He averaged 43.5 yards per game in the games he played. He did not have a single 100+ yard game. But then again, he was not our #1 WR. He was behind Hollywood and McBride. Had Hollywood been gone, would he have beat McBride as our #1 player in yards? I don't know. What I do know is that I think that Monti perhaps could have selected a player that would have played and started more games. We shall see if Michael will be able to play and start more games. Should we pass on Marvin and end up with Odunze, Malik or Brian Thomas, will he be second to either of those rookies? Will he do better than Dortch this coming season? If he does less than a Rookie WR or Dortch, that would mean he becomes the number #3 WR in the Corp.
John Gaines #122 PICK
I was not able to find any kind of stats on him for last season. Did he get injured early on? I thought I would have found some kind of stats on him being a 4th round pick. So, we still have to see if this pick was worth it...
Clayton Tune #139 PICK
Well, we know how that turned out....
Owen Pappoe #168 PICK
He started 1 game. Had 5 Solo Tackles, 11 Combo Tackles, 1 QB Hit and 1 Pass Defended. Zero interceptions. He was a 5th round pick. So, I am not sure if he should have done better. What is funny is that we just drafted two LB's in consecutive years in the first round...that did not pan out.
Kei'Trel Clark #180 PICK
He started 7 of 14 games. No Interceptions. 37 Solo Tackles, 43 Combo Tackles, QB Hits zero, Sacks zero and Passes Defended 4. Considering he was a 6th round pick, I actually thought he did a pretty good job when he played. Then the Coaches did not let him play as much...hmm...I couldn't figure that one out...
Dante Stills 3213 PICK
Started 8 of 15 games. 3.5 sacks(almost as many sacks as our 2nd pick in the draft...Solo Tackles 18, Combo Tackles 47, QB Hits 5. I actually thought he did a great job for being our last pick in the draft last year.
I definitely think that Paris, Clark and Stills played at the level expected in the round they were selected. I also think Paris played above expectations...
So tell me, do you still think that Monti and JG know how to draft players that play as expected where they are drafted?
I Don't think that...and that is what worries me about trading down again...
While I think what you said about each player is fair....facts are facts. However, there may be a different way at looking at these facts. Sure no one really shined, but rookies often have slow starts. While there are always exceptions, most don't start to shine until year 2 or even three. It's too soon to give them a true evaluation. The fact that they are all still on the team ( at least I think they are ) says something. But my main point is this. We had a complete coaching change. New coaching regimes takes time to fully develop. Then we had more rookies playing than pretty much any other team. Other than rookies, we had a bunch of very mediocre vets and only a small handful of proven vets. Taking in these considerations, it hard for a rookie to shine. Y Reading what you posted, I see a glass half full....not half empty. Still, it was a well-researched post and I thank you for that, I just came to a different conclusion.... You mention this: Coaching regimes takes time to fully develop...
Did Houston have a new Coaching Staff? Yes they did. Just like us.
_______________________________________________
You mention that Rookies have slow starts:
Houston's Will Anderson won Defensive Rookie of the year. No slow start there...
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You mention that we had a bunch of very mediocre vets and only a small handful of proven vets:
Houston only won 3 games in 2022. Do you think they had what you mentioned at that time? So did that carry over to 2023? We had one more win than them in 2022. But yet we end up with 4 wins in 2023 and they end up with 10 wins and a playoff run. Don't you think that in 2022 we too had a bunch of very mediocre vets and only a small handful of proven vets? I think that our 2022 win records would imply the same thing. ____________________________________________________
You also mention: Put a rookie on a team that's well stocked along with a well-oiled coaching staff that has had time to congeal...well it's much easier.
It seems that Houston and us did not have what you mentioned last season? Oops...I am wrong...Houston figured it out, we did not...Houston did not need a well stocked and well-oiled coaching staff to make a playoff run...
So honestly, do you still think the glass is half full?
My concern is that I think Monti and J.G. could have done much better in the draft last season. From my perspective...it was a huge mistake to trade down. And I feel the same way about this draft too...
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Post by Chirpn’time on Apr 23, 2024 19:35:06 GMT -7
Hello FL...here are the stats on how each of our 2023 drafted players turned out this past season... __________________________________________________________________________________________
How do you think Monti's draft went last season? Here are the players we drafted and my opinion on how the pick turned out.
Paris Johnson: #6 PICK
This was a great pick though I would have rather had Will Anderson. And don't forget that we had to give up a pick to trade back up to get him. But I am okay with this pick last draft.
BJ Ojulari: #41 PICK
We did not see much from him as far as above average. It was not even close. He started zero games. Was drafted with our #41 pick. Shouldn't he have started at least one game? He was to be our pass rusher from the draft. He had 4 sacks in all of the games he played. For being our second pick in the draft, should that have been more in the 7 to 8 range? He had 40 combo and 23 solo tackles. He also had 6 QB hits...do you think he held up to where he was picked?
Garrett Williams:#72 PICK
He started 6 out of 9 games. Remember that he did not start playing until he was cleared from his injury to play. He did not get to play until week 7. He was also inactive for weeks 15 and 17. So, he missed playing in 8 games last season. He was our 3rd pick in the draft last draft. Do you think that maybe we should have drafted a player that would have been available for most of the season? Because of this, I do question Monti on this pick with our 3rd pick of the draft last season. In the 9 games that he played, he had one interception, 19 solo tackles, 23 combo tackles, zero QB hits, zero sacks and 2 passes defended. Do you think he has held up to where we drafted him?
Michael Wilson: #94 PICK
He started 12 of the 13 games he played. For the games he played, it seems he did good. Not elite but more like just average. He had 565 receiving yards, 3 TD's(only 3 TD's ub 12 starts is not really that good. However, his 14.9 yards per reception are good. He averaged 43.5 yards per game in the games he played. He did not have a single 100+ yard game. But then again, he was not our #1 WR. He was behind Hollywood and McBride. Had Hollywood been gone, would he have beat McBride as our #1 player in yards? I don't know. What I do know is that I think that Monti perhaps could have selected a player that would have played and started more games. We shall see if Michael will be able to play and start more games. Should we pass on Marvin and end up with Odunze, Malik or Brian Thomas, will he be second to either of those rookies? Will he do better than Dortch this coming season? If he does less than a Rookie WR or Dortch, that would mean he becomes the number #3 WR in the Corp.
John Gaines #122 PICK
I was not able to find any kind of stats on him for last season. Did he get injured early on? I thought I would have found some kind of stats on him being a 4th round pick. So, we still have to see if this pick was worth it...
Clayton Tune #139 PICK
Well, we know how that turned out....
Owen Pappoe #168 PICK
He started 1 game. Had 5 Solo Tackles, 11 Combo Tackles, 1 QB Hit and 1 Pass Defended. Zero interceptions. He was a 5th round pick. So, I am not sure if he should have done better. What is funny is that we just drafted two LB's in consecutive years in the first round...that did not pan out.
Kei'Trel Clark #180 PICK
He started 7 of 14 games. No Interceptions. 37 Solo Tackles, 43 Combo Tackles, QB Hits zero, Sacks zero and Passes Defended 4. Considering he was a 6th round pick, I actually thought he did a pretty good job when he played. Then the Coaches did not let him play as much...hmm...I couldn't figure that one out...
Dante Stills 3213 PICK
Started 8 of 15 games. 3.5 sacks(almost as many sacks as our 2nd pick in the draft...Solo Tackles 18, Combo Tackles 47, QB Hits 5. I actually thought he did a great job for being our last pick in the draft last year.
I definitely think that Paris, Clark and Stills played at the level expected in the round they were selected. I also think Paris played above expectations...
So tell me, do you still think that Monti and JG know how to draft players that play as expected where they are drafted?
I Don't think that...and that is what worries me about trading down again...
While I think what you said about each player is fair....facts are facts. However, there may be a different way at looking at these facts. Sure no one really shined, but rookies often have slow starts. While there are always exceptions, most don't start to shine until year 2 or even three. It's too soon to give them a true evaluation. The fact that they are all still on the team ( at least I think they are ) says something. But my main point is this. We had a complete coaching change. New coaching regimes takes time to fully develop. Then we had more rookies playing than pretty much any other team. Other than rookies, we had a bunch of very mediocre vets and only a small handful of proven vets. Taking in these considerations, it hard for a rookie to shine. Put a rookie on a team that's well stocked along with a well-oiled coaching staff that has had time to congeal...well it's much easier. Reading what you posted, I see a glass half full....not half empty. Still, it was a well-researched post and I thank you for that, I just came to a different conclusion.... I fall in close to Thomas Cat and very much appreciate Flash and his deep dive on this and many other things...I also agree with Flash's previous thinking of the importance a good CB in the 2024 draft...Green from FSU and Hadden from Tenn. also the CB from South Dakota are good fits in JG's defense. On the thought of Anderson over Paris...not in agreement. Paris played more snaps and even changed his technique mid season and did not miss a beat. Texans had a healthy QB #1 and Cards had a healthy QB #1 8 games. Anderson had better IDL support and better defenders around him...so I would expect better results from him....Will Anderson would do little to protect K1's health and Paris is a solid addition to protect K1's health. Monti also picked three players with health issues (BJ, Wilson and Williams) plus Gaines had an injury before the season started...this doesn't mean they were bad picks. Paris and Stills had solid rookie seasons as well as picking up TE Higgins, S Chachere, CB S. Thomas and IDL Stilles more or less UNFA rookies and Pappoe was slow to get going, but seemed to improve in the last 4 games. CB Clarke had a couple good games before being disciplined. The total amount of players of low value before the season who played significant number of snaps was impressive. Plus the actual making AZ relevant as per a team players respected and in 2024...a place good players would want to be part of what is happening...the respect of the coaches and Monti that was gained by everyone involved in the NFL speaks volumes on the transition that happened in 2023...despite having what many consider a talent heavy roster. No excuses by the new staff and holding everyone accountable. I put little value on what other teams are doing with their draft choices. I am concerned about what AZ is doing. It was great to see how positive the players are in the first team activities in 2024...they want to accomplish great things and are eager to get going...that is not a usual movement in recent AZ history. I really like the defenders picked up in FA this year...4 big additions and not old players. Their attitude is contagious and I look forward to as fast start in 2024.
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Post by thomas cat on Apr 23, 2024 21:23:46 GMT -7
Coaching regimes takes time to fully develop...
Did Houston have a new Coaching Staff? Yes they did. Just like us.
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You mention that Rookies have slow starts:
Houston's Will Anderson won Defensive Rookie of the year. No slow start there...
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You mention that we had a bunch of very mediocre vets and only a small handful of proven vets:
Houston only won 3 games in 2022. Do you think they had what you mentioned at that time? So did that carry over to 2023? We had one more win than them in 2022. But yet we end up with 4 wins in 2023 and they end up with 10 wins and a playoff run. Don't you think that in 2022 we too had a bunch of very mediocre vets and only a small handful of proven vets? I think that our 2022 win records would imply the same thing. ____________________________________________________
You also mention: Put a rookie on a team that's well stocked along with a well-oiled coaching staff that has had time to congeal...well it's much easier.
It seems that Houston and us did not have what you mentioned last season? Oops...I am wrong...Houston figured it out, we did not...Houston did not need a well stocked and well-oiled coaching staff to make a playoff run...
So honestly, do you still think the glass is half full?
My concern is that I think Monti and J.G. could have done much better in the draft last season. From my perspective...it was a huge mistake to trade down. And I feel the same way about this draft too...
I got to admit, you make a decent argument for your point of view. Thats what's great about this forum. I will even admit my opinions are always tainted by my homerism. I always want to see the glass half full. Still, while few draft years is perfect for any team, I feel good about last year. I don't think anybody thought Huston would have the year that they did....yet they did...so kudos to them, they out did us this time. Our draft last year may not be monumental, but I think it was solid especially when you compare it to other years. I bet dimes to dollars, most of those guys will be here even next year. Let's not forget, our #1 QB didn't play until the later in the year. Thats when Michael Wilson started to look like someone not to mention Greg Dortch....and...Trey Mcbride. A second year guy that went from nothing to almost all pro. Just further evidence that it may take a year or two. Maybe Huston out did us last year, but I'm pleased with what we have done. I appreciate your opinion as I do most here. It's always fun to see who is ultimately right. I hope I am in this case....lol. Peace my friend
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Post by Dry Heat on Apr 23, 2024 22:00:19 GMT -7
Ojulari, Williams and Gaines all started the season injured. Williams was drafted injured at a discount as he would have been a first round prospect or at least high second before his injury. I have faith BJO and Williams will show up this sophomore season. Same for Paris and Wilson. Stills played way beyond his draft position. And Gaines we just don’t know. He may be our answer on the missing link on the Oline, or a flat bust.
It was refreshing to see our young draft picks get so much playing time as rookies.
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Post by cardinalsdo on Apr 24, 2024 3:20:26 GMT -7
Fans want to criticize Bidwill for being cheap. That's not why you should criticize him. Mike's real weakness isn't his failure to spend money; it's meddling. I think this is a big reason great coaches and GM's don't want to join the Cardinals. Even Monti wasn't a glowing pick as GM. He was basically the second in command with the Titan's front office and the Titans were not some dominant franchise. There were definitely better candidates.
With that in mind, I wouldn't be surprised if Mike told candidates that he would need to retain certain employees and scouts within the organization. Basically, if you want to be the GM here, you have to work with me and my people. The best candidates aren't going to accept those terms. They will wait for a better opportunity. Guys like Monti were not going to get a GM opportunity anywhere else so they had to take this GM job
I agree with FL, last year's draft wasn't as great as it was initially touted. It was given a A- grade but one year later, we can see it was a like B- draft It was not a bad draft but it wasn't a strong one either. It was average. We had some good players and some misses.
This draft will be telling. If he trades the 4th pick to acquire more picks to then use on mediocre players ala Steve Keim, then that is going to tell what kind of GM he is.
In general, I rarely see good organizations trade down to acquire multiple picks to then draft great players. The best front offices make the most of their existing picks and don't really focus on volume. They typically draft players with strong fundamentals from good schools. They choose players who match their offensive and defensive philosophy. They usually don't select high risk high reward players until the 5th-7th rounds.
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Post by End Zone on Apr 24, 2024 4:19:16 GMT -7
As far back as before this site was BORN I posted a thread at the Cards website pointing to the fact that owners of teams need not be associated with the draft in order to avoid conflict of interest. Yeah, I get it. He owns the team and it's his business so he should and can do whatever he wants. The fact is he sticks his face into the middle of too much football business that he needs desperately to stay clear away from. Michael Bidwill is the problem. The problem has existed for 103 years. MB is not that old.
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Post by somecardsfan on Apr 24, 2024 5:32:27 GMT -7
Fans want to criticize Bidwill for being cheap. That's not why you should criticize him. Mike's real weakness isn't his failure to spend money; it's meddling. I think this is a big reason great coaches and GM's don't want to join the Cardinals. Even Monti wasn't a glowing pick as GM. He was basically the second in command with the Titan's front office and the Titans were not some dominant franchise. There were definitely better candidates.
With that in mind, I wouldn't be surprised if Mike told candidates that he would need to retain certain employees and scouts within the organization. Basically, if you want to be the GM here, you have to work with me and my people. The best candidates aren't going to accept those terms. They will wait for a better opportunity. Guys like Monti were not going to get a GM opportunity anywhere else so they had to take this GM job
I agree with FL, last year's draft wasn't as great as it was initially touted. It was given a A- grade but one year later, we can see it was a like B- draft It was not a bad draft but it wasn't a strong one either. It was average. We had some good players and some misses.
This draft will be telling. If he trades the 4th pick to acquire more picks to then use on mediocre players ala Steve Keim, then that is going to tell what kind of GM he is.
In general, I rarely see good organizations trade down to acquire multiple picks to then draft great players. The best front offices make the most of their existing picks and don't really focus on volume. They typically draft players with strong fundamentals from good schools. They choose players who match their offensive and defensive philosophy. They usually don't select high risk high reward players until the 5th-7th rounds.
You cant judge a draft class just after one year. Just like you cant judge a draft class right after the draft. Last years draft class was playing on a poor team. The offense started out with a career backup under center with WR core of Dorch, Brown etc. Defensively they were even weaker. Hard for rookies to be successful when the team around them is really bad. I remember how bad the oline was back in the early 2000's. Then Warner came and all of a sudden it was a top 10 oline.
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Post by CardCore on Apr 24, 2024 6:42:13 GMT -7
As far back as before this site was BORN I posted a thread at the Cards website pointing to the fact that owners of teams need not be associated with the draft in order to avoid conflict of interest. Yeah, I get it. He owns the team and it's his business so he should and can do whatever he wants. The fact is he sticks his face into the middle of too much football business that he needs desperately to stay clear away from. Michael Bidwill is the problem. The problem has existed for 103 years. MB is not that old. There is truth to the saying,"the apple doesn't fall far from the tree".
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